I came to know about nuclear science in my second year of study at the University of Western Australia in 1959 when I conducted a laboratory experiment on photosynthesis that involved the use of 14C. Much later I served in a committee to determine the siting of CRANE. In 1982, I was appointed Director of PUSPATI, a career move which I had not expected. However, this led to my full time involvement in the management of nuclear research, policy decisions on nuclear matters and serving as the government’s spokesman in international forums and conference.

The main emphasis of the government at the time was moving towards industrialization. Within the context of the country’s industrialization agenda, I saw that the role scientific and technology research particularly at PUSPATI should not be purely for the sake of knowledge advancement but should be extended to innovation, production, marketing and forecasting.

Scientific innovation is complex for it is more than inventing, encompassing the establishment of processes for producing goods or services. Innovation is also an extremely risky activity requiring clear definition and a thorough understanding of user needs. As such, the research thrust at PUSPATI at that time began to tap the potentials of research and development needs of not just the public sector but also the commercial sector.

Nuclear technology is multi-faceted. The race for supremacy in the area of nuclear power is the main concern of the big powers. At the same time, there is the fear of nuclear weapons spreading to other countries, particularly less developed ones, and possibly challenging this supremacy. In the area of power generation, memories of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl provide a cacophony of discordant voices that would rule out this option, despite depleting supplies of fossil fuels vis-a-vis the accelerating pace of industrial development. However, the non-power applications will certainly play important roles. MINT is doing a wonderful job in various areas of this nature. I would urge that in addition to industrial applications, greater emphasis be given to agriculture, environment and medicine. This is particularly important in the light of the need for an increase in food production, safer and more efficient technologies and processes in industry and for diagnosis and treatment in medicine.

MNS: For the time being, the government has decided that nuclear power is our last option as a source of energy. Do you think we should put aside the technology and concentrate on non-power applications and only revert back to the technology when the need arises? As you know the development of nuclear power needs a long preparation time 10 to 15 years.

At the current pace of industrialization in Malaysia, the question of current and future energy supply is of critical importance. It is quite a predicament for the government to plan on the future energy mix in the face of public opinion that is apprehensive, bewildered and divided on nuclear energy. Until it has to choose, the public is naturally concerned about all energy options in which it sees some risk.

If we accept energy, not purely for its uses but more as a social concept, we must also accept it as an issue of controversy. Nuclear power (a part of nuclear energy) for example has been embedded in controversy since the first application of nuclear fission which resulted in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the wisdom of which continues to be strongly debated. Controversies continue to surround that need for nuclear power development, the siting of power plants, the provisions for worker and public safety, the disposal of nuclear wastes, and other ethical issues raised by nuclear power. One of the most important issues is the degree of connection between civilian nuclear power and nuclear weapons. Even if nuclear power were clean, safe, economic, and ample fuel supply assured, it would still be an unattractive option by virtue of its widely perceived corollary for the manufacture of nuclear weapons.

I hesitate to give a short answer to the question because the issue is not amenable to the one-word affirmative or negative as my preceding comments indicate. In the final one-word affirmative or negative as my proceeding comments indicate. In the final analysis, it would depend very much on political will. If the decision is to embark on nuclear energy as a part of a major long-term energy source, much needs to done to erase old specters, and prepare a climate of acceptance among the public.

MNS: What about no-power applications such as the applications in industry, agricultural, medicine and the environment? Do you think we have done enough or is there a lot more work to be done?

Let me begin by commending MINT for the wonderful job it has been doing since its inception. Research, innovation and process in such areas as industry, agriculture, medicine and the environment will bear returns in the short and long terms. Greater emphasis must be given to our renewable resources to produce value-added products. Facilities such as the EB machine, the Cobalt 60 facilities should be fully utilized to cover new renewable resources. Emphasis must be given to technological advances for increasing production and also multiplying the products from the available resources. I would urge that greater emphasis be given to agriculture and the environment for it is in these two areas that the greatest numbers will benefit. The high expectations for MINT will ring hollow without a dedicated and qualified workforce to realize the outward-looking development strategies.

MNS: I am sure that you must have some good memories while you were the Director General of MINT. Are there certain achievement you would like to highlight?

The transition from an academic administrator to a head of a research centre posed no problem. I was given the fullest support and cooperation from all quarters in MINT. The timing was excellent because the research reactor was commissioned in the first year of my directorship of MINT, together with the availability of other equally important facilities. More importantly I had a team of energetic, enterprising and enthusiastic staff. Towards the end of my tenure, many achievements were accomplished including the ISO 9002 Certification for SINAGAMA. MINT became the first government institution to achieve this distinction.

Some memories stand out. One was the IAEA general assembly in 1982 when I headed the Malaysian delegation, the new Malaysian ambassador to Austria yet to be appointed at the time. It was my first exposure to international politics on nuclear science. It was a privilege to participate in high level international policy negotiations, not to mention to witness high political dramas such as the walkout of the US delegation when they did not get their way.

MNS: Since Datuk left MINT, how often do you get news about nuclear technology? Do you think nuclear technology should always be kept low profile, the less the public knows the better? Can you elaborate?

When one retires one tries to develop new interests. However, I would not be telling the truth if I were to say that I have burnt the bridges of knowledge on nuclear matters. MINT itself continues to update me with important developments in the industry for which I am grateful. And I am gratified that wherever I am, here or overseas, I continue to run into former associates in the international nuclear network and they still recognize me.

There is no doubt that for the general public, the issue of nuclear technology is shrouded in mystery. However, in my former capacity as Director General of MINT, we embarked on an aggressive public education campaign through the mass media, open days and visits, and speaking engagements. We even sponsored mass communication students of ITM to produce a video to explain MINT’s work, which was telecast by RTM several times, I strongly believe that all organizations, particularly those that run on public funds should be transparent.

MNS: Now you are working with the Public Services Commission and you have interviewed many young scientists to work with the government, how adequate is the knowledge of our graduates in science and technology in general and nuclear technology in particular?

If the graduates fall short of expectations, I do not see the blame falling squarely on their shoulders. The so-called science graduates, are the products of an overly specialized system of university education. Their ‘training’ is so narrow and specialized that the graduate feels that he is not qualified to do anything else except that for which he is trained regardless of possible changes in his interests or his opportunities. These trained regardless of possible changes in his interests or his opportunities. These graduates are products of a system of education that is under pressure to meet the nation’s manpower needs as opposed to a more liberal education. Many of us who are narrow experts today are broadly cultivated than our present generation of graduates and students.

Let me add that professional education needs to be made more intellectual, reflective and liberal by increasing theoretical understanding, sharpening research and methodology and imbuing students with strong moral and ethical values in the possible social ramifications of technology applications.

MNS: MINT is celebrating her 25^th Anniversary this year. Any message you would like to give to warga MINT?

Twenty-five years of history of any institution considering the country’s rapid pace of development is short. For the future, I predict that MINT may be looked upon as an instrument of change and progress and an integral part of nation building to meet its aspirations which will become increasingly sophisticated and exacting.

MINT must formulate long-term science and technology development and utilization programs so as to convey a clear vision of its plans while at the same time reconciling the need for an in-built flexibility to cope with new circumstances and needs. It must carry out research that will result in social and economic gains while at the same time provide solutions for the protection of public interest and welfare.

As it embarks on its research activities, making decisions what new technologies to develop, what existing ones to adopt and adapt, what political and administrative machinery to use, I would like to remain those involved that technology cannot be held to be self-correcting. Human effort will be required to bring it about.

The belief that scientists are driven purely by an unselfish desire to advance knowledge and for the highest good is too idealistic, naïve and over-simplified. Simple idealism often turns out to be inadequate in the face of the complexities of the real world.

Lastly, scientists must be vigilant and be able to overcome the seeming contradictions between his science and his duty. The accountability of a Muslim scientist is both social and spiritual. He must always return to the revelation as the supreme authority.

MNS: Thank you for your time Datuk.